In It | This Is How We Make It Through [Podcast]

By Understood

.

.

In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Bob Cunningham hear from families about the (sometimes unexpected) ways that joy creeps into everyday life — even on the most challenging days. From learning to ride a bike (as an adult!) to making fart noises at the dinner table, this is how families with kids who learn and think differently make it through.

Transcript provided by YouTube:

0:00
[Music]
0:04
hi i’m amanda morin a writer and
0:06
in-house expert for understood.org and a
0:08
parent to kids who learn differently
0:10
and i’m bob cunningham i’m a career
0:12
educator and a parent and i’m the
0:14
executive director for learning
0:15
development at understood and we are in
0:18
it this is a podcast from understood on
0:21
this show we hear from parents and
0:22
caregivers and sometimes kids and we’ll
0:25
offer support and advice for families
0:26
whose kids are struggling with reading
0:28
math focus and other learning and
0:30
thinking differences
0:31
today we’re talking about finding joy
0:33
and beauty in everyday life while also
0:35
managing the challenges that come with
0:36
raising kids who learn differently
0:38
the idea for this episode started with
0:40
an article i read in the new york times
0:42
by andrew solomon his name may be
0:44
familiar he writes a lot about families
0:46
that are different in some way this
0:48
article was about the work we as a
0:50
society need to do
0:52
to overcome these sort of pervasive
0:54
negative and kind of uninformed views of
0:56
disability
0:57
and there was one line in it that i
0:59
especially love as a parent of kids with
1:01
autism and adhd
1:03
solomon wrote
1:04
the fact that you wouldn’t have chosen
1:06
something doesn’t mean you can’t find
1:08
joyful meaning in it and boy did that
1:10
resonate with me
1:12
[Music]
1:23
it’s nice to start talking about the
1:25
great things about having kids
1:27
regardless of whether they learn and
1:28
think differently because a lot of the
1:30
time we’re talking about what we find
1:32
difficult and to be able to talk about
1:36
what’s really just joyous in having kids
1:39
i think is something every parent
1:40
probably should be looking at at some
1:42
point or another
1:43
but first bob tell me what joy means to
1:45
you
1:46
so for me joy is
1:50
that little bit of overwhelming feeling
1:53
you get right so it goes beyond just
1:55
being happy
1:56
or being excited it’s that kind of sense
1:59
of being overwhelmed by what is
2:02
happening that makes you feel so happy i
2:06
you know i think your definition of joy
2:08
is very similar to mine i don’t think of
2:09
it as sort of that everyday contentment
2:11
that you know things are going well it’s
2:13
that moment that makes you like laugh
2:15
out loud
2:17
so once we started talking about this i
2:19
was reminded of a family my kids and i
2:21
got to hang out with over the summer
2:23
lindsey and kevin and we’re just going
2:25
to use their first names today they’re
2:27
raising two kids who learn and think
2:28
differently and when i found they and
2:30
their family were going to be passing
2:32
through
2:33
my
2:34
town in maine i suggested we meet up
2:36
and we all went out to lunch and our
2:38
time together was it just made a really
2:40
powerful impression on me first of all
2:42
our two boys are very close in age never
2:45
had met and they were just joyous
2:47
together
2:48
and then there was this one moment
2:50
after lunch when kevin and his son sam
2:52
just started skipping down the street
2:54
like they didn’t have a care in the
2:55
world
2:56
kevin do you remember skipping down the
2:58
street like that i do yeah and we we
3:00
just had a good lunch and we uh we were
3:03
he was feeling silly
3:05
and i think what’s important to say
3:06
about that is that he used to not be
3:07
able to skip you know he he wears braces
3:10
on his feet and that was a challenge for
3:11
him to get to the point where he even
3:13
could skip so when he wants to skip now
3:15
i’m there i want to skip with him i know
3:17
i know how hard he worked to get there
3:18
and how much fun it is for him so
3:20
i take those chances whenever i get him
3:22
sam is eight years old his sister maggie
3:25
is 12. when asked to describe maggie
3:27
lindsey says write off that she is
3:28
ferociously brave she is the person who
3:32
will do parasailing
3:34
400 feet in the air with my mom
3:37
maggie loves art theater soccer and
3:40
science lindsay says she has what’s
3:42
called a language-based learning
3:44
disability so for her her working memory
3:46
and her short-term memory
3:48
are smaller than other kids and so for
3:51
her what that means is it’s sometimes
3:53
hard for her to comprehend or to take
3:55
multi-step directions
3:57
and sometimes it’s really hard for her
3:59
to express herself
4:01
maggie’s brother sam has a different
4:03
personality lindsay says he’s super
4:05
silly very emotionally expressive and
4:08
all heart people at school call him the
4:10
mayor because he goes around and says hi
4:12
to everybody sam has some difficulty
4:15
with reading like his sister but most of
4:16
his challenges are physical he struggles
4:18
more with motor skills
4:20
kevin and lindsay talk about their kids
4:22
with so much warmth and humor and pride
4:25
but they say it took them some work to
4:26
get there both kevin and lindsay loved
4:29
school when they were little and success
4:30
came easily to them so they figured
4:32
their kids would be the same when
4:34
maggie’s kindergarten teacher first told
4:36
them she thought there was some sort of
4:37
problem they were floored
4:39
we were blindsided uh with that news in
4:42
kindergarten and it really really took
4:44
us back um you know there have been
4:46
never been any signs in preschool the
4:48
the teachers always said oh she’s such a
4:49
delight she’s got a great attitude she’s
4:50
doing just great uh they didn’t catch
4:52
any of this stuff because she put on
4:54
such a brave face and so it really it
4:57
surprised us and also we didn’t know how
4:59
to deal with it because it was not
5:00
something that we ourselves had been
5:02
through right
5:03
what was it to you when it looked like
5:05
school wasn’t going to be as easy for
5:06
her as it had been for you oh it’s
5:08
definitely disappointing i mean i mean
5:10
because you know we had a certain
5:12
you know when you have kids you have a
5:14
certain vision of how things are going
5:15
to go and it’s always rosy and
5:17
optimistic right
5:19
but but parenthood is a series of steps
5:21
where you realize that your kids are
5:23
like everyone else so they’re not
5:24
perfect uh and we’ve had steps like this
5:26
before both both maggie and sam uh have
5:29
vision problems so they had to get
5:30
glasses when they were really young and
5:32
that was our first moment of oh wait our
5:34
kids aren’t perfect you know and it
5:36
seems like that’s just a stupid thing
5:38
now but at the time just megan getting
5:40
glasses was heartbreaking for us now
5:42
it’s the tiniest thing we didn’t think
5:43
about it you know uh the news in
5:44
kindergarten was a was an even bigger uh
5:47
blow to that idea uh that that this
5:49
wasn’t uh the path that you know we’d
5:51
imagine for our kids first maggie and
5:54
then sam later on
5:55
and yet you know that’s the path we’re
5:58
on uh and you can
6:00
get upset
6:01
that
6:02
that it’s not the perfect way it’s gonna
6:04
be or you can realize this is who your
6:06
kid is and you’ve got to meet them where
6:08
they are
6:09
it sounds like they’ve redefined your
6:10
expectations of what parenting would be
6:12
does that sound accurate 100
6:15
i i think in
6:17
in two ways i was thinking about this
6:19
idea of joy and i think you know we live
6:21
in a university town that sends tons of
6:24
kids to ivy league colleges and you know
6:27
the conversations at the school board
6:28
meeting and around town are just about
6:30
how stressed our kids are and
6:32
um there’s a great author um that calls
6:36
it the checklisted childhood like we’re
6:38
doing everything we can to sort of build
6:39
our kids resumes so they get into the
6:41
perfect college we have the perfect job
6:43
so i would say one of the most beautiful
6:46
ways um and one of the most freeing
6:48
things that having the kids we have did
6:50
was it sort of threw all of that out the
6:54
window i like i feel very free that
6:57
our kids do not have to compete with
6:59
other kids and that is not saying we’re
7:01
lowering our expectations at all for
7:03
kids it’s saying what we’re going to do
7:05
is really figure out the kids we have
7:07
and what’s going to make them thrive
7:10
and so it doesn’t matter if so-and-so is
7:12
going to this college and so-and-so is
7:14
going on to do this in some ways it was
7:16
like
7:17
so
7:18
relieving to not even have to be a part
7:21
of that conversation or to feel
7:22
influenced by it because i think we
7:24
learned very on like
7:26
we have to know the kids we have and the
7:28
way that they’re going to be the most
7:29
successful is really figuring out what’s
7:32
right for them
7:34
but parenting their kids hasn’t just
7:35
been a matter of adjusting expectations
7:37
it’s also allowed for some incredible
7:39
growth like when lindsay saw maggie
7:41
struggling to learn how to ride a bike i
7:44
never learned how to ride a bike
7:46
and the reason why i never learned how
7:48
to ride a bike was not for lack of
7:50
trying or my parents trying so we did
7:52
the traditional thing where my father
7:54
held on to the back seat of my bike and
7:56
you know what’s supposed to happen is
7:58
you’re supposed to be writing and then
7:59
all of a sudden your dad lets go and
8:00
you’re supposed to have this great
8:01
moment where you realize you’re doing it
8:04
um
8:05
and what actually happened to me was i
8:07
just kept falling and falling and
8:09
falling
8:10
um and i did not like to fail as a kid
8:13
and so i decided i was not going to ride
8:15
a bike because my father was clearly
8:17
sabotaging me which doesn’t make sense
8:19
now but anyway fast forward to maggie
8:23
learning how to ride a bike i’m 38 years
8:25
old she’s trying so hard
8:28
and you know i feel like such a
8:29
hypocrite because i’m telling and then
8:31
this is so true of so many things in her
8:33
life where i’m pushing her to be brave
8:35
and bold and
8:37
do all these things when i’m not really
8:39
doing them myself so she and i basically
8:42
made a deal
8:44
that if she learned how to ride a bike
8:46
without me holding on to it that i would
8:48
go out i would buy a bike
8:50
and i would learn to ride and so that’s
8:53
exactly what we did
8:55
um it was not pretty her um elementary
8:58
school had a big hill that goes down
9:00
sort of you know a street that goes down
9:02
a big kill to her school and so i used
9:04
to make her she really wanted to ride
9:06
bikes to school so i would make her go
9:08
to school a half an hour early because i
9:10
didn’t want any of the adults to see me
9:12
flying down the hill on a bike screaming
9:15
and terrified and potentially falling so
9:17
we would go early
9:19
until i built up the confidence um to to
9:22
just be able to ride normally and now we
9:25
now we ride all the time and so i’m
9:27
really grateful to her that you know i
9:29
can’t tell her to be brave and tell her
9:31
to keep trying when it’s hard if i don’t
9:33
do it myself
9:35
we heard from some of you about how you
9:37
found joy raising kids with differences
9:39
here’s beth
9:41
patrick
9:42
was born with down syndrome but he was
9:44
also born with a heart defect and he had
9:47
to be
9:48
have open heart surgery at nine weeks
9:50
old and i had two other older children
9:53
jack and mary kate but i wasn’t sure if
9:55
patrick was my last child or not
9:58
and so every part of his babyhood felt
10:01
so special and i savored it and i felt
10:05
gifted with that
10:06
slow unfolding it it felt like those
10:10
slow motion videos that you see of a
10:12
flower unfolding
10:14
in fact
10:15
i remember so clearly
10:17
one time watching him spend an entire
10:20
day figuring out how to open a kitchen
10:23
cupboard
10:25
and as he was doing that i thought
10:28
you know jack and mary kate just figured
10:29
this out so quickly i never even noticed
10:32
when they figured it out they i mean it
10:34
was like i opened my eyes and now they
10:36
know how to open the cupboard here i’m
10:38
watching you figure it out all day long
10:42
and by the end of the day he figured it
10:43
out and it was such a special
10:47
moment to get to see him really figuring
10:50
these things out
10:51
i wasn’t upset with him that it took him
10:54
longer i just thought it was cool that i
10:56
could notice it
10:58
[Music]
11:05
so i can remember a mom
11:08
talking to me at length
11:10
about her son and her son had
11:12
a lot of difficulty with a lot of things
11:15
especially around school
11:18
and that transferred into a lot of
11:19
difficulty with a lot of things at home
11:22
and so one of the things that he started
11:24
to do when he was kind of a young
11:26
teenager is he really jumped into
11:29
cooking fortunately for him his mom and
11:32
dad realized like oh this is really
11:35
turning him on like he’s really excited
11:37
about this right so they encouraged it
11:39
they started to take him places to learn
11:42
more about cooking
11:43
and the mom was you know talking to me
11:46
about this over a period of months and
11:48
then over a period of a year and stuff
11:51
and i can vividly remember kind of the
11:53
last conversation i had with her about
11:55
it and it had entirely shifted
11:58
from
11:59
how into cooking her son became to how
12:03
into cooking she became
12:05
um and this was somebody who never
12:06
really liked to cook and was a very busy
12:10
executive and i remember her saying in
12:13
the end
12:14
if it hadn’t been for how excited he got
12:17
i never would have figured out that i
12:19
actually love cooking oh that’s so cool
12:21
so like she found joy through him
12:24
finding his passion yeah
12:26
and you know and i think that’s so
12:28
important because we need to find those
12:30
moments of joy like whether it’s from
12:32
our kids whether it’s in our kids or
12:34
those kinds of things
12:35
and we definitely heard that from
12:37
lindsay and kevin
12:38
but
12:39
i don’t want to give the impression that
12:41
lindsay and kevin are superhuman and
12:43
always patient and loving and
12:44
understanding parents
12:46
because that’s setting the bar pretty
12:47
high and they are the first to tell you
12:49
that it’s not moments of beauty and
12:51
grace all day every day i know we had a
12:54
we’re having dinner one time it was one
12:55
of those nights where where where both
12:57
kids were acting up for whatever reason
12:59
and i’m not even sure it had anything to
13:00
do with their the differences but it
13:02
just you know it was like a stressful
13:03
night we’d all had kind of a crappy day
13:05
and we were you know all in a sniffy
13:06
mood
13:07
it was a very serious tense moment and
13:09
lindsay just stopped she was about to
13:11
lose it and she put her mouth to her
13:13
upper forearm and made a fart noise and
13:15
it was
13:16
hysterical it just it cut through the
13:18
tension of a table and we all just
13:21
started howling it was just stupid and
13:23
silly and it just brought us all back to
13:26
what are we upset about what are we
13:27
doing here they’re kids have fun with
13:29
them
13:31
such good advice right they’re kids very
13:33
good advice and you know we heard from
13:35
another parent michelle whose 17 year
13:37
old son avi has autism
13:39
michelle tells us she’s gotten a lot of
13:41
joy out of raising avi and she actually
13:43
credits him with making his three
13:44
siblings kinder people and with bringing
13:47
lots of music and dancing into the house
13:49
but that doesn’t mean she never
13:50
struggles
13:52
you know it’s a it’s an interesting
13:53
balancing act because i want to allow
13:56
myself
13:57
the permission to be human and to say
13:59
sometimes this is really hard because
14:00
sometimes it is really hard
14:02
and i feel like not allowing myself to
14:04
understand that and experiencing that is
14:07
not fair to myself
14:08
you know and i don’t want it to get pent
14:10
up and turn into resentment so usually
14:13
like in those moments when i feel that
14:15
way
14:16
my husband or i were very good at
14:18
bouncing off of each other so neither
14:20
one of us are allowed to be in one of
14:21
those slumps at the same time if i’m in
14:24
a slum first he’s not allowed to be and
14:25
vice versa that’s number one number two
14:27
is that we’ll often remind ourselves of
14:30
something that avi has said or done that
14:33
will just turn us into laughing within
14:34
minutes so somehow we try to bring in
14:37
some of what who avi is and remembering
14:39
that great sense of humor and
14:41
remembering that great fun-loving
14:43
musical happy kid and that kind of helps
14:46
bring us out and i always try to remind
14:47
myself
14:48
that i think abby’s biggest problem with
14:51
autism is us
14:52
meaning we are working on trying to fit
14:55
him into a world that he doesn’t
14:57
naturally fit into
14:59
but if he’s not being pushed to fit into
15:01
that world that he doesn’t actually fit
15:03
into and he’s being allowed to play
15:06
dance and sing and do what he wants and
15:08
it doesn’t matter if he does that in the
15:09
middle of a grocery store because we’re
15:10
not worried about appropriateness
15:13
he’s fine and happy you know sometimes
15:15
trying to remind myself about that happy
15:17
kid and not focus on whatever that issue
15:20
is that’s bothering me at the moment can
15:22
often usually just pull me out
15:24
[Music]
15:32
she’s so right about the grocery store
15:34
and you know when you have kids with
15:36
stuff going on other people think that’s
15:39
difficult for you or you need pity kevin
15:41
he really bristles at that notion
15:44
when maggie gets down about herself and
15:46
and the challenges she faces we’ve
15:48
actually pulled over the car one time to
15:49
be like look
15:51
all your friends have something to deal
15:53
with too that one is emotionally fragile
15:56
and cries on the soccer field anytime
15:57
the ball gets taken from her that one
16:00
you know can’t focus on this and that
16:02
every kid is imperfect right and we just
16:05
happen to know the way in which ours are
16:07
imperfect that doesn’t mean they’re
16:09
broken or bad or wrong it’s just that
16:11
they’re different right and every kid is
16:13
different and so
16:14
these parents who i think look at you
16:15
like like oh well you must be dealing
16:16
with that yeah but you’re dealing with
16:18
something else i know that your kids
16:20
have some issues too and if you don’t
16:21
know it yet it’s coming at some point
16:23
right
16:25
don’t look at me look at your kids
16:27
so that’s kevin’s message to folks who
16:29
aren’t raising kids who learn and think
16:31
differently and here’s lindsay’s message
16:33
for those who are that joy you’re
16:35
cultivating isn’t just important for you
16:38
i think if we send them the message that
16:40
there isn’t room for joy or that this is
16:42
so hard
16:44
or such a life sentence like whether we
16:47
realize it or not our kids are picking
16:49
up on that and
16:50
you know i think they’re working harder
16:52
than most adults we know because they’re
16:55
grappling with so much and so
16:57
you know i think it’s key to their
16:59
survival having that release and being
17:02
able to create those moments
17:04
you know i think one of the ways that
17:07
i try to keep my perspective on this is
17:09
like dealing with my own stuff um
17:12
getting help talking to other parents
17:14
finding a community of parents of kids
17:16
who learn and think differently so that
17:18
i’m not processing that stuff with them
17:20
that’s not fair to them i think you know
17:23
our job i think my
17:25
my parents were the ones who sort of
17:27
said your job from now on is to be a
17:29
detective
17:31
and to watch them and to figure out what
17:32
they’re good at and figure out what
17:34
brings them alive and to lean into that
17:37
and so i guess that was the only closing
17:39
thought is just
17:41
how important our job is as parents to
17:43
make those moments of joy and to make
17:45
things light and to sort of be
17:47
detectives and figure out what gives
17:49
them joy and to
17:51
to do more of that
17:53
[Music]
18:08
lindsay makes such a good point about
18:09
the need to deal with your own stuff
18:12
right for sure and it’s it’s not only
18:14
our own stuff
18:15
it’s also
18:17
kind of just the way we expect things to
18:20
go right and we expect things to go a
18:22
certain way because that’s how it went
18:24
for us right that’s how it went for us
18:26
when we were kids that’s how it went for
18:28
our other child
18:30
that’s how it went for
18:32
the kids we watched our friends raise
18:35
that sort of stuff so you get your ideas
18:37
about the way it should go
18:39
it’s not going to go
18:41
the way you expected it to go
18:43
necessarily it’s not i think we have as
18:45
parents a lot of influence on it but if
18:48
you go into it thinking you’re gonna
18:49
control it you’re way off the mark and i
18:51
think we have less influence than we
18:53
actually think we do sometimes
18:55
i find myself having those moments where
18:57
i’m like wait a minute
18:58
why did i say no why am i not letting
19:02
you do this
19:03
thing that
19:05
it doesn’t matter if you do or not it’s
19:07
it’s these things as parents we have to
19:09
sort of let go of
19:10
um and then just like finding the humor
19:12
in it the other thing is look you know i
19:15
have to remember my wife has to remember
19:17
all of our listeners have to remember
19:20
parenting’s a long game right it’s uh
19:22
it’s what happens over time and each
19:25
moment is far less important than you
19:27
think it might be
19:29
so if something doesn’t go well or you
19:31
don’t react the way you think you should
19:33
or you have you know spent
19:36
the last couple years really focusing on
19:38
what’s wrong and what’s a problem and
19:40
how can we help and what can we do
19:42
better it’s never too late to sort of
19:44
say
19:45
hey let’s start you know every week
19:47
we’re going to talk about one thing
19:50
that was an experience of joy for all of
19:52
us
19:54
[Music]
20:02
you’ve been listening to in it a podcast
20:04
from understood our website is
20:05
understood.org where you can find all
20:07
sorts of free resources for people
20:09
raising kids who learn and think
20:11
differently
20:12
we also really want to hear what you
20:14
think of our show
20:15
go to u.org podcast to share your
20:18
thoughts and also to find resources
20:20
that’s the letter u as in understood dot
20:23
o r g slash podcast you can also rate
20:26
and review us on apple podcasts itunes
20:28
spotify wherever you download your
20:30
podcasts from it’s a great way to let
20:32
other people know about init and if you
20:35
like what you heard today please tell
20:36
somebody about it send it to somebody
20:38
who needs to find a little joy in
20:40
raising their child or just send a link
20:42
to your child’s teacher
20:43
you can also subscribe to in it on apple
20:45
podcasts follow us on spotify or keep up
20:48
with us however you take your podcasts
20:50
between episodes you can find understood
20:52
on facebook instagram pinterest or
20:54
youtube and you can visit our website
20:57
you that’s theletteru.org
20:59
our show is produced by julie suberin
21:01
and sarah ivray mike erico wrote our
21:03
theme music and laura kushner is our
21:05
executive director of editorial content
21:08
thanks for being in it with us
21:17
[Music]
21:33
you

—

This post was previously published on YouTube.

***

You Might Also Like These From The Good Men Project

Compliments Men Want to Hear More Often

Relationships Aren’t Easy, But They’re Worth It

The One Thing Men Want More Than Sex

..A Man’s Kiss Tells You Everything

—

Photo credit: iStock

The post In It | This Is How We Make It Through [Podcast] appeared first on The Good Men Project.